We live in hope

News that a bid for European money is to be made to aid the long awaited regeneration of Pontypridd town has been welcomed by Mike Powell, Welsh Liberal Democrat Parliamentary candidate

"We have been waiting too long and seen too many plans come to nothing. Pontypridd is long overdue an injection of capital to address the myriad of problems which have left it trailing behind other towns.

I have asked for reassurance from Council Officers that this time it is not going to be a false start, and that they are sure the match funding can be found.

Pontypridd is a great town, with a fantastic history, and of course a treasure at the centre which is Ynysangharad War Memorial Park.

The plans will if put into effect hopefully address not only the issue of the declining retail industry but rejuvenate the whole town. We can but hope...."

The press release put out by the Council covers many things which the Welsh Liberal Democrats have been fighting for over many years. Such as improving the traffic flow..

One of the suggestions put forward by Mike is a one way system to ease congestion. Simple measures such as removing the turning restriction into Taff

Street for traffic from the Gelliwastad Road side would help.

There is talk of renovating the Lido - again something we have long campaigned for. The current plans do, however, involve the removal of the current and much used paddling pool which is widely opposed by local residents.

Much overdue as well is the renewal of roads and pavements in the town centre which are currently in a dreadful state.

However, the Council report makes it clear that there is still a long way to go. The money has yet to be identified for any of this.

There is no money earmarked for any new buildings - just renovating existing ones, and that is dependant in shop owners footing half of the bill

We very much hope that this will not prove to be yet another false start. We have had far too many of those in the past.

HOWEVER....... the devil is into the detail as they say, and a look at the details as presented to the Cabinet in October leave a huge amount of room for doubt.

http://www.rhondda-cynon-taff.gov.uk/stellent/groups/Public/documents/Reports/027388.pdf

http://www.rhondda-cynon-taff.gov.uk/stellent/groups/Public/documents/Reports/027389.pdf

The reports are full of possibilities and suppositions. Whilst we very much hope that something positive will come of this then it is certainly jot the fait accompli that the Council press release seemed to imply.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/south-wales-news/pontypridd-llantrisant/2009/10/22/22m-to-make-ponty-pretty-91466-24976231/

"£22m to make Ponty pretty"

We need more than 'pretty'

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Council Launch New Website

Rhondda Cynon Taff CBC News.

Love Ponty? Love the new website!

Rhondda Cynon Taf Council has launched an impressive new website dedicated to the regeneration and promotion of Pontypridd town centre.

The site, which can be found at www.loveponty.com has been designed as part of a five-month marketing campaign by the local authority to attract more shoppers and visitors to the famous county town.

The Council remains committed to regenerating Pontypridd into a major shopping destination of the future and with the support of European and Welsh Assembly Government funding, the plans are becoming a reality

Looking forward, the site includes a section dedicated to the regeneration schemes ongoing in the town including the public realm enhancements planned for Taff Street and the current proposals for the redevelopment of the Taff Vale Shopping Precinct.

The website is designed to give a positive outlook on Pontypridd by promoting the many attractions on offer including Ynysangharad War Memorial Park, the Muni Arts Centre and Pontypridd Museum as well as listing all of the events held in the town throughout the year. These include classic car shows, the Big Bite and more recently the phenomenally successful Ponty's Big Weekend featuring the Sugababes and Only Men Aloud!

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Pontypridd Redevelopment (or the lack of) - The History So far

Pontypridd Landmarks Illuminated (Rhondda Cynon Taff Council News 18/03/09

Pontypridd's two most iconic engineering monuments are now being illuminated following an innovative new scheme led by Rhondda Cynon Taf Council.

The landmark William Edwards Bridge and Isambard Brunel Viaduct are now more visible than ever thanks to the impressive lighting project which operates from early evening until midnight.

The Council's Cabinet Member for Economic Development and Housing Cllr Paul Cannon said the dual project displayed how confident the local authority and its partners are about the ongoing regeneration schemes for Pontypridd Town Centre.

"The new lighting schemes have been introduced in an effort to increase pride in the town and awareness of the unique experience on offer to visitors," he said.

"The association between famous physical features and their respective towns and cities is an important part of promoting the identity of a place, often acting as an enticement for people to come and visit as well as cementing a strong sense of local pride and confidence.

"This is essential to Pontypridd because the time is long overdue when we need to change people's perceptions of the town centre and encourage more visitors to come and enjoy not only a unique shopping experience, but the many fascinating historical and cultural attractions on offer here."

International artist Lulu Quinn was commissioned to deliver the Monument Illumination Scheme as part of the regeneration programme for Pontypridd. The project is being funded through a variety of sources including Rhondda Cynon Taf Council, Arts Council for Wales, Visit Wales, Welsh Assembly Government, Pontypridd Town Council and Macob.

An official launch of the new illumination scheme took place for members of the public to enjoy a first-hand insight into the work undertaken to make it a reality. Joined by Council members and officers from the various partnership organizations who have supported the scheme, Cllr Cannon launched the illumination scheme before a heritage tour of the town centre took place for all to enjoy.

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Overwhelming Support For Pontypridd Plans (Rhondda Cynon Taff Council News 09/03/09)

Pontypridd's extensive regeneration plans have received the overwhelming support of the residents and visitors to the town who attended a public exhibition or viewed the proposals online.

Rhondda Cynon Taf Council, the Welsh Assembly Government and consultants LDA Design exhibited a long-term regeneration plan for the county town in a bid to establish it as a vibrant and attractive shopping destination.

A regeneration strategy was prepared three years ago for Pontypridd and is now being updated to focus its attention on the areas that bring the greatest benefit to the town's economy. From the research, seven key projects were identified in the exhibition, such as the restoration of the lido at Ynysangharad War Memorial Park, creating a new bridge from Taff Street into the park, public realm enhancements with new paving, street furniture and art, redeveloping the Taff Vale Shopping Precinct, redeveloping Penuel Square, refurbishing the indoor market and ensuring the overall maintenance of the town in general.

Following comments made at the exhibition an eighth key project of development of the Brown Lenox site is expected to feature in the final strategy that is currently being prepared

The public exhibition also highlighted 22 other potential development projects that would help achieve the vision and aims of making Pontypridd a focal point for activity and growth, a cultural capital, a major tourist destination, create a dynamic and diverse economy and a town that is easy to move through.

All proposals and ideas are subject to further investigation, funding, and discussion with property owners, planners and other stakeholders.

More than 250 people attended the exhibition and almost 100 questionnaires were completed. Further responses were made via the Pontypridd Regeneration website and over all 90% of the public showed their total support for the aims of the proposals.

Recent progress in Pontypridd includes the opening of Pennant House and the Catherine Street car park, private initiatives giving the town a high quality restaurant, cafes and deli.

The removal of traffic from Taff Street, the introduction of art work and the construction of a demonstration area with paving, seating and artwork illustrates how the rest of the town centre could be developed. This week the William Edwards Bridge and Brunel Viaduct were also illuminated for the first time.

European funding opportunities mean that Pontypridd has never had a better chance of success in obtaining up to £9million which will need to be match funded from various funding streams, resulting in an initial £18million being invested in the town centre.

Rhondda Cynon Taf Council's Cabinet Member for Economic Development and Housing Cllr Paul Cannon said: "The enthusiastic support for the scheme from members of the public who viewed the exhibition either in person or online, displays a confidence that, depending on funding support from various streams, this can be delivered for the benefit of the future of Pontypridd.

"We all know that Pontypridd has suffered many years of inactivity and uncertainty, but improvements have most certainly been made and are visible for all to see. These new key developments and projects will potentially transform the town into a destination to be proud of."

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Riverside Scheme to take Pontypridd Forward (RCT Council News 21/02/08)

The Welsh Assembly Government and Rhondda Cynon Taf Council are to begin detailed discussions with Taff Vale Ltd to progress the redevelopment of the Taff Vale Shopping Precinct in Pontypridd.

A detailed independent appraisal funded by the Welsh Assembly Government and Rhondda Cynon Taf Council examined issues relating to development economics, design quality and sustainability of the two proposals put forward for the site.

The Taff Vale Development, known as Riverside was considered and evaluated as offering the better potential for taking Pontypridd forward as a major shopping destination within the South Wales Valleys.

There are currently two private sector developments with outline consent for the Precinct site in Pontypridd, namely Valad (formerly Scarborough Holdings) and Taff Vale Ltd.

Leighton Andrews, Deputy Minister for Regeneration, said it was a positive step forward: "The Assembly Government and Rhondda Cynon Taf Council are now in a position to enter into detailed discussions with Taff Vale Ltd to take their proposals for the regeneration of this strategic site forward."

County Borough Councillor, Russell Roberts, Leader of the Council said: "This important decision taken by ourselves and the Assembly Government will act as a major kick start to the development of the Taff Vale Precinct.

"We have recently taken some major steps forward with the regeneration of Pontypridd, but the Precinct redevelopment is key to truly changing the face and fortunes of the town.

"The detailed appraisal has confirmed the Riverside development as the proposal which best fits the needs of Pontypridd and our aspirations for the town.

"We all know the immense potential Pontypridd has and the Riverside development has been recognised as having the right credentials to re-establish the town as major shopping destination in the South Wales Valleys.

"Following the recommendations of the appraisal, the Assembly Government and the Council will now enter into detailed discussions with Taff Vale Ltd to further develop the details of their proposals.

"While this scheme is very much in its infancy, this decision represents another step forward in the redevelopment of Pontypridd."

Jane Davidson, Assembly Member for Pontypridd said: "I am delighted that, thanks to the partnership efforts between the Welsh Assembly Government and Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council, meaningful discussions can now go ahead with a view to making substantial improvements to the Pontypridd experience.

"Pontypridd has been in need of this positive move for many years. We have already seen very significant changes in recent months, with work on the Church Village bypass about to start, the near-completion of the St Catherine's corner development and a traffic-free Taff Street.

"Further, we are bidding to re-open the pool in the park and, thanks to the recent success of Sustrans Connect2 bid, Pontypridd will see huge improvements to the Taff Trail, including a new cycle path to the University of Glamorgan.

"All considered, it is clear that Pontypridd faces a very positive future."

A spokesperson for Taff Vale Ltd said: "We are delighted to have been selected as preferred developer and look forward to continuing our working relationship with the Welsh Assembly Government and Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council in order that we may deliver a vibrant and successful regeneration of Pontypridd town centre."

The Council and the Assembly Government have accepted the findings of the report which has highlighted the redevelopment proposed by Taff Vale Limited be the preferred scheme for the site.

Led by Welsh Assembly Government, detailed negotiations with Taff Vale Limited will now begin to establish the full potential of the Riverside scheme and ensure it can meet required standards expected by the public sector within an appropriate budget.

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Pontypridd town centre regeneration scaled down

Jan 30 2009 by Jonathan Evans, South Wales Echo

A TOWN centre "in desperate need of investment" has had the plug pulled on its £50m regeneration plans.

The rundown Taff Vale shopping precinct in Pontypridd was set for an overhaul which would have seen a hotel, shops, offices and apartments built in the heart of the town.

But instead a new "scaled-down" plan is being prepared after developers said the scheme was not viable in the current economic climate.

Andy Crompton, of Riddelltps Limited, agents for developers Taff Vale Limited, said: "There are very few, if any, developments of that size going on anywhere in the UK at the moment.

"It's very difficult to secure funding in the current financial climate for a new development of this scale.

"We are working very hard in the background on an alternative scheme that we can deliver in the current climate based on the site we own."

But locals in Pontypridd said they felt the town was being overlooked and treated as "second rate".

Neil O'Farrell, of Graigwen, said: "They have managed to find the money for St David's 2 in Cardiff, so it looks to me like Pontypridd is being treated as a second- rate town."

However, Rhondda Cynon Taf Council insisted that the precinct still had a major role to play in the proposed regeneration of Pontypridd.

A council spokesperson pointed out that the authority was committed to making Pontypridd "a major shopping destination for the future".

Plaid Cymru AM Leanne Wood, who represents South Wales Central, said: "Pontypridd desperately needs investment. Regeneration of the town centre is long overdue.

"I am hoping that the down-scaled plans will still bring jobs to the town, and Plaid will continue to campaign for meaningful regeneration in all of our Valley communities."

Gianni Orsi, chairman of Pontypridd Chamber of Trade, said he was disappointed about the decision but not surprised, given the scale of the original plans.

He said: "There was always talk about whether it was the right scheme for Pontypridd, whether it was too ambitious, too big."

RCT Cabinet Report 28/01/08

On the 16th January, 2008 an Officer Delegated Decision was made in respect of the redevelopment of the Taff Vale Precinct site which has been a longstanding aspiration for the regeneration of Pontypridd both in the Taff Ely Local Plan and the Pontypridd Regeneration Strategy.

Two alternative schemes have been proposed for the site. The Angharad Walk Scheme proposed by Valad (formerly Scarborough) and the Riverside Scheme proposed by Taff Vale Limited. Following the completion of an external consultants study funded jointly by Welsh Assembly.

Government and Rhondda Cynon Taf Council the option to open formal negotiations with Taff Vale Limited is now being progressed.

Pontypridd in the future?

Nov 29 2007 by Victoria Richards, Pontypridd Observer

IT'S NOT just a dream - Pontypridd has been touted as "the shopping destination of the future". As a number of projects designed to give the town a much-needed facelift spring into fruition, VICTORIA RICHARDS look at the work going on and ask whether this will give Rhondda Cynon Taf what it needs to put Ponty firmly on the map

TRAFFIC

The new traffic scheme for the town centre - which began on November 26 - sees the beginning of part-pedestrianisation for one of Ponty's busiest shopping areas.

Traffic is now blocked through Taff Street and part of High Street between 11am-4pm Monday to Saturday to "encourage Christmas shoppers and improve the shopping environment in Taff Street by removing traffic during its busiest times," say RCT Council. All streets leading off Taff Street will also be traffic-free.

However, the new traffic rules didn't come off quite without a hitch. With the implementation of the new directions delayed by a week, Terry Jenkins, aged 67, and his wife Elaine, of Graigwen, were left in the dark regarding the rules for drivers with special needs.

"We didn't know whether we - as disabled drivers - could come into town until 11am," he said.

"It was bad enough when they started reserving all those spaces for delivery vehicles only, leaving just a little bit of room for us on Market Street!

"We need to get into town every day, so as long as it stays closed just between those hours then it shouldn't be a problem."

A council spokesman said: "The start date is a week later than previously expected, which allows for all parties to plan for the big event which is seen as a major step-forward in the regeneration of the town centre.

"During the 'core' hours of operation, vehicles will be physically prevented from entering the Prohibition Zone, by the installation of automatic telescopic bollards in Taff Street near its junction with Crossbrook Street.

"Some exemptions will be allowed, but these will be for a limited number of reasons and include residents, emergency vehicles and situations where urgent repairs are required. The popular town circular bus service will be retained as it provides a valuable link to the bus and train stations, especially for the elderly and disabled."

ST CATHERINE'S CORNER

Nearby, the multi-million pound Pennant House development - which sees the building of a new landmark multi-storey car park and office at St Catherine's Corner - is expected to be completed before the estimated deadline of January 2008.

"This impressive building, which will bring welcomed additional parking and a substantial number of new jobs into the town, continues to make good progress," a council spokesman reported. "It gives a clear indication of the major investment potential for Pontypridd."

YNYSANGHARD PARK

Further afield, a £50,000 bid to the Heritage Lottery Fund has recently been approved for Ynysangharad War Memorial Park.

The funding, from the Lottery's Parks for People programme, will be used to complete the required planning works - set to include a comprehensive 'conservation management plan' and outline an increase in training, volunteering and access opportunities - and help identify and develop proposals for restoration of the historic park.

They will also include sketch scheme proposals for restoration of park buildings including the lido and the design of new riverside gardens.

PLANNING APPLICATIONS

Scarborough Development Group and Taff Vale Limited have received full planning permission for their individual schemes, Angharad's Walk and The Riverside, as part of the regeneration of the town centre.

Alongside the Assembly Government, the council will evaluate both on an equal footing to see which offers the best possible outcomes for the future of Pontypridd.

Cabinet Member for Economic Development Coun Robert Bevan said: "With two applications of equal status on the table, we now have a real choice to take Pontypridd forward into a bright future."

New "Welcome to Pontypridd" signage has already been installed at entrances to the town, along with orientation maps and pedestrian signage throughout the town centre.

PUBLIC ARTWORK

The first of two artists has been commissioned to create gateway features for Pontypridd town centre.

The works are being funded from a variety of sources including the Arts Council of Wales, Visit Wales, Art and Business, Pontypridd Town Council, Pontypridd Market Company and Macob Construction as well as RCT Council.

Public Art Wales/Celf G C announced that artist Andy Hazell, a sculptor from Knighton Powys, will work on a new landmark sculpture to stand on the entrance to the town at the roundabout adjacent to the A470 near the Brown Lenox site.

Andy was selected from 77 national and international competitors and plans are ongoing to commission the second artist to implement new lighting features of the William Edwards Bridge and Brunel's viaduct.

CHRISTMAS EVENTS

With Christmas almost upon us, plenty of festivities are planned for the entire family.

On December 1 Ynysangharad War Memorial Park will be home to a group of penguins, and a continental market will be held on Mill Street.

Trehafod Ladies Choir will entertain shoppers on December 8, and on the following Saturday an enormous Santa on Stilts will be visiting the busy town centre to add even more festive flare to the shopping experience.

CONCLUSION

Rhondda Cynon Taf Council Leader Coun Russell Roberts said: "This series of schemes clearly illustrates our total commitment to the regeneration of Pontypridd town centre.

"We want to see Pontypridd restored as a major shopping destination, not only within Rhondda Cynon Taf, but the whole of the South Wales Valleys.

"The many ongoing schemes demonstrate that the regeneration of Pontypridd is progressing well and remains of major importance to us all.

"These will all help make Pontypridd the shopping destination of the future."

'Ugly duckling' shopping centre is set for a revamp

Sep 20 2007 by Our Correspondent, Pontypridd Observer

PONTYPRIDD'S "ugly duckling" Taff Vale shopping centre could be transformed into an elegant hotel, apartments and offices and modern shopping complex under new proposals.

Development company Taff Vale Ltd have fine-tuned their scheme, scaling down the hotel from 51 beds to 39 but increasing the number of apartments from 48 to 84.

If approved by Rhondda Cynon Taf Council, the one and two-bed properties would be in two blocks and would command stunning views over the River Taff and Ynysangharad War Memorial Park.

Debenhams department store would anchor the shopping centre, which would also have a bar and restaurant.

Architects Leach Rhodes Walker, who worked on Manchester's Trafford Centre, the five-star Malmaison Hotel in Liverpool and the redevelopment of Manchester City FC's Maine Road ground, said: "The existing shopping centre is in decline, but not trading unfavourably.

"Redevelopment of the site with a new retail-led shopping centre with a complementary range of a mixed uses, will significantly reinforce this section of the town centre.

"It will reinvigorate the adjoining uses, as well as providing a new destination to attract retailers to the town and promote regeneration of the site and surrounding area."

The development would provide 81,410sq ft for shops and a multi-storey car park with 658 spaces. Taff Vale Ltd paid £50,000 to submit the planning application to Rhondda Cynon Taf Council - meaning the detailed plans from architects would have cost hundreds of thousands of pounds.

There are no firm estimates for the total cost of the revamp or timescale. Sheila Davies, director of development and regeneration at Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council, said: "The council is committed to the redevelopment of the Taff Vale Precinct and aware of the revised application from Taff Vale Ltd.

"An evaluation process is being carried out in conjunction with the Welsh Assembly Government which is examining the two private sector proposals for the Taff Vale Shopping Precinct in Pontypridd to establish which, if either, would receive public sector support .

"The revised application from Taff Vale Ltd is expected to be presented to Planning Committee at the end of October or the beginning of November, depending on certain consultations."

RCT Development Control Committee 08/11/07

The following was approved:

Application No 06/1539 -Mixed use development including retail, commercial, hotel, office and residential classes with associated car parking and access (Amended plans received, including new red line application site plan (13.08.07), land bounded by Temperance Place, Taff Street, Bridge Street, & River Taff, Pontypridd

The proposed development seeks to provide a substantial mixed use development, providing retail, residential, hotel and office facilities (together with ancillary parking provision) to create an enhanced town centre.

The development would in effect stand on the site of the existing Taff Vale Shopping Precinct which would be demolished, the Gas Road Car Park and the Electricity Sub-Station which sits between the precinct and the car park adjacent to the River Development Control Committee - 8th November 2007

Taff (a new sub-station being incorporated into the development scheme). As well as the Taff Vale Precinct and the Sub-Station being demolished to make way for the development other buildings will also be removed, these being:-

Nos. 31-33 Taff Street (Principality House) and the building adjoining Somerfield (occupied by Consol Suncentre and Club above) on the western side of Taff Street; and Nos. 50-56, 58, 67, 68, 68a, and 69 Taff Street (eastern side).

Five or six trees that stand to the rear of the Precinct building on the western river bank will be removed.

Ponty's latest precinct scheme

Jul 21 2005 James Hodgson, Pontypridd Observer

PONTYPRIDD'S Angharad Walk redevelopment scheme is in danger of collapsing because of plans to redevelop the Taff Vale Precinct around a Debenhams store.

The Observer can reveal that Rhondda Cynon Taf Council officers have watched a presentation by property managers, Riddell Total Property Solutions, urging the council to trust them to bring Pontypridd town centre into the 21st Century.

Riddell TPS wants the council to withdraw from its controversial 17-year agreement with Scarborough Development Group, which plans to build a Sainsbury's store and shopping centre around the decaying precinct in Taff Street and build a multi-storey car park on part of Ynysangharad War Memorial Park.

Scarborough was granted planning permission for the Angharad Walk scheme two years ago but is still holding out for public money.

Manchester-based Riddell TPS bought the precinct for £4m in February under the name of Taff Vale Ltd and wants to redevelop the site, with Debenhams as the anchor store.

A council source said leader Russell Roberts is "very impressed" with the alternative development. It appears the new plans were backed by evidence from places like Bangor that suggests a Debenhams store can help revitalise town centres, especially when a food supermarket is built on the outskirts.

Coun Roberts has already declared his support for Morrisons' plans to build a superstore on the old Brown Lenox site. That development, if not thrown out by the National Assembly, could open the door for Riddell TPS.

Morrisons will now go before an inquiry - alongside property developers, Morbaine, who want to build a store on Pontypridd RFC's ground at Sardis Road. Now a fourth developer has expressed an interest, further muddying the water.

Rhondda Cynon Taf is bound to partner the "preferred developer" - Scarborough Development Group, (formerly Teesland). But in April, town centre planners RPS suggested the Angharad Walk scheme will fall through if Morrisons opens a store.

It is also thought that Riddell TPS are opposed to building on Ynysangharad Park, which would appease protesters. Instead, special walkways could cross the River Taff and the A470 to link the proposed Morrisons store, the park and the town centre.

Riddell TPS director Gareth Riddell was unable to discuss the details of the plans but confirmed his company had made a presentation to the borough council.

"We're engaged in a minor refurbishment process of the precinct at the moment," he said.

"At the end of the day, we're not just an investment company - we are developers.

"If we were invited to do something with the current structure we would be delighted, but we haven't got anything at the moment - other than that we own the shopping precinct.

"We have made a presentation to RCT which they are considering, but we haven't heard anything back yet.

"It's an incredibly complex situation down there, and we want to try to resolve that situation with the best interests of the town in mind. That's all I can say."

A Scarborough Development Group spokeswoman refused to discuss the Riddell TPS proposal.

"This is a matter for the council and the owners of the Taff Vale Precinct," she said.

A spokesman for the borough council leader's office said: "An alternative proposal has been presented to council officers in recent weeks.

"This proposal involved the Taff Vale group, who presented their ideas for the development of the north-west and Angharad Walk area of the town.

"No formal application has been received and no presentation on this proposal has been made to either the leader or any other cabinet member.

"The council has no plans to move away from its agreement with Scarborough to take forward their proposals for the Angharad Walk development."

31 July 2003. RCT Development Control Committee

RCT Development Control committee meet at the Municipal Hall, Pontypridd, in order to debate the Scarborough Development Group's application 02/0919/10 - Angharad Walk (2).

Planning Consent was granted following a 4 hour public meeting

Welsh Liberal Democrat Councillors voted against this proposal

So what exactly are the Councils plans for Pontypridd?

Nobody seems altogether sure

But these plans for the town appeared in 2007. They have to the best of our knowledge never officially been made public, but are widely known to a number of people in the area.

You will note it still refers to the Teesland development (and its car park in the Park) which is now dead and buried.

The replacement plan which was welcomed by many - us included - has since been vastly scaled down.

The reference to Sardis Road rugby ground as a "large, flat and valuable piece of real estate" and reference to relocating the rugby club to Ynysangharad Park (?) shows the attitude to the House of Pain that means so much to so many people.